Interview by Toni Landini
Hi Claire, would you mind recalling us briefly your background?
Hello, with pleasure. I am a Senior Associate having worked in Elie Kleiman’s team for the past 10 years. I am a double-national (French/Italian) and have always wanted to evolve in an international background. I graduated with a double-degree in French and Italian law at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne in 2007 and with a Private International Law Master 2 (still at Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne) diploma in 2008. Thereafter, I spent a year as an intern at Freshfields in Elie’s team, left Paris for a one-year LLM Program at King’s College and was hired by Elie literally the day I came back from London in 2010. I worked there as an associate while I was also attending the Paris Bar School training, for a year and a half. I gave my oath end of 2011. After 8 years at Freshfields, mostly spent in the international arbitration group, I followed Elie to his new pastures at Jones Day, where I have been working for a little more than two years now.
Your university education has an international coloring, with a double master’s degree in French and Italian law and an Anglo-
Saxon LLM, what do you think are the main benefits of this international opening during a legal education?
My answer will be two-fold. On the one hand, I believe that it is paramount to pursue an international opening during a legal education so as to better understand different cultures, different mindsets and different legal systems. To give you an illustration, it took me a few classes in London to understand why negotiating the Brussels Convention provisions on overriding mandatory provisions with the UK must have been such a very delicate task at the time! The UK concepts of private international law are so different from the continental European’s. But now, it is so much easier for me to explain French or other civil-law concepts to UK-
based colleagues or arbitrators.
In addition, my Italian background (both as a native speaker and as an Italian-law graduate) have allowed me to work on very interesting cases while at Freshfields, to liaise with our teams in Rome or Milan or our co-counsel. It has allowed me to assume a role that would have usually be granted to someone with more experience, just because it was easier and natural for us Italians to work together in Italian (even though the cases were always in English!). As I have always thought, having a second native language is a precious gift.
On the other hand, I strongly encourage young practitioners to focus on building a precise knowledge of their own legal system in addition to their willingness to build their international background (eg, for French practitioners having graduated in France, to know French civil and commercial law well).
Ultimately, apart from investment cases which are usually disconnected from any domestic law system, commercial cases always involve issues of the governing domestic law. To deal with them, even where a legal expert is appointed, requires a mastery of civil and commercial legal concepts. This means that to understand and discuss legal arguments applicable in any legal system, one needs to have a very strong anchorage in, and knowledge of, his/her own legal system and particularly the basic principles of contract and commercial law.
You have worked in large practices (Freshfields and now Jones Day), in light of your experience, what are the advantages/disadvantages of these firms compared to arbitration boutiques?
In my view, working in leading international arbitration firms provides a very solid background to young practitioners. I have learnt from the best at the international arbitration group of Freshfields for the first eight years of my career. Even though large practices usually require more personal involvement from young associates compared to boutiques (but this is not necessarily the case), they also provide a large spectrum of ongoing cases on which to learn for long hours, and the opportunity to work for international arbitration stars (although this of course applies to some boutique arbitration firms). I have learnt cross-examination skills from Peter Turner and how to deal with quantum issues from Noah Rubins and both experiences will always mark a turning point in my career. Working in a large practice also allows one to work for different departments and create very powerful synergies. I have worked on intense and very interesting issues of post-M&A arbitration with the M&A teams of the firms where I have practiced and this taught me a lot. The main disadvantage of beginning a career in a bigger practice is that the first two years are usually spent on huge cases where the junior associate does not have a clear picture of the whole case. This, however, highly depends on the nature of the cases where the practice is involved. Generally speaking, the first two years of a career as an international arbitration associate are hard but the learning curve is very high and satisfying on a day-to-day basis.
Do you think it is important as a legal practitioner to devote part of your activity to research and training students?
I do believe it is crucial to devote part of my activity to training students. From as far as I can remember, I have always wanted to teach. Although I am very happy to have ended up as a practicing lawyer rather than a full-time professor, I enjoy my 3 to 4 annual classes in leading French masters’ degrees. I find the experience always enriching. It is also a great way to identify potential candidates. I remember one of your alumni who made a very good impression on Elie and me a few years ago during our class on litigation and arbitration strategy. He had prepared one of our mock cases in depth and led a very interesting discussion in that regard. We were surprised, as this does not happen often (and has indeed never happened thereafter!). After the class, Elie sent an email to Professor Thomas Clay asking that we interview his student right away. We offered him an internship opportunity and he worked for us for six months.
Do you have any tips for young people who want to start their career in international arbitration?
Yes! I wrote the below tips for OGEMID a few years ago and I am happy to share them with you.
Top Five things Junior Lawyers Should Do on the Job:
- Become an encyclopedia on the case. Becoming the ‘living memory’ of the case is a great way to build trust with more senior lawyers. As mutual trust will grow, with it will come more interesting tasks and further opportunities.
- Be detail-oriented. The devil is in the details. Attention to details is synonymous of reliable. Senior lawyers expect carefully proof-read documents, accurate cite checking and impeccable presentation. Cases are won on the thorough review of the facts of the case and of the opposite side’s evidence.
- Be eager to learn. Do not hesitate to spend time next to more senior lawyers when they are reviewing the first draft. Learning by their side is a great opportunity to progress.
- Take on as many cases as possible. The more cases you are exposed to, the faster you learn and grow. Do not hesitate to invest your time building experience. Time spent learning on the job is the best capital-investment activity!
- Welcome change. Change is good … and very often it cannot be avoided. Do not be a risk-adverse conservative. On the contrary, embrace change. While there may be exceptions, many young lawyers may benefit from opportunities to experiment with different legal practices. Judgment is often built on the diversity of one’s experience. Try different fields of the law, try transactional and contentious practices, try different business sectors. In dispute resolution, court experience is really complementary of international arbitration; mediation too is very important.
Top Five things Junior Lawyers Should NOT Do On the Job:
- Do not cut corners. Cutting corners to avoid digging into the ‘difficult issue’ should not happen. Legal research requires persistence and stamina. Where a difficult issue appears during a legal research or in drafting an argument, there lies the critical bit of that research or argument.
- Do not conduct research only on internet search tools. Younger generations tend to review only precedents found on internet search tools. The first source that should be checked are textbooks specializing on the subject. Only then should internet sources be looked for. By doing so, a research is generally more straight to the point and thorough.
- Do not look down on less brainy tasks because you “have a PhD”. Challenges and opportunities often lie in the most deceptively mundane assignments.
- Do not forget where your place in the world is and think team first. Any task can be seen as an opportunity to show trustworthiness. Do not get involved in power games. Do not have sharp elbows. Do not be obsequious. Respect, hard work and collegiality will take you a long way.
- Do not indulge in office whining. Complaining brings everyone down. Be the one who shows stamina and confidence through the hard times.